I can see the theological point in baptising a child of a lesbian couple. I honestly can. I can even see the point in baptising a child of a lesbian couple (Who's the Daddy? Will the child even know the Father in Heaven?) solely because of a desire to bring Salvation to a soul - even if strong doubt remains over whether the child will be 'raised and educated in the Faith'. Prudence might suggest some kind of delay with assurances sought that the pair themselves desire Salvation and to live in accordance with the Teachings of the Church, but, who, who on God's green Earth, invited the cameras in - the world media?
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| Queen of the Clergy, pray for our priests |
Does the very fact that they behaved in such manner not suggest a serious lack of Catholic formation of the 'couple' and that therefore this occasion is an occasion of grave and serious public scandal? The Francis Effect is moving at breakneck speed and watch, because a watershed moment has been passed, in the full glare of the media, so expect more of the subtly diabolical over the next few years taking place in the Church. For this is not just any baptism, but, now that its in the media, it is the World's 'first LGBT baptism'. Naturally, the child was conceived, through 'assisted reproduction'.
To add insult to blasphemy, the Godmother of the child is the Argentine President who has made it plain she is totally at odds with Catholic teaching. Who will speak out? If priests around the World reject politically motivated 'LGBT baptisms' will they be left hung out to dry by not only the World, but the Catholic Church as well? I get the impression that the unqualified mercy preached by Pope Francis - which in outcome can become mere tolerance - might get quite a few of the clergy in a spot of bother.
The whole event was an ideological and political attack on the Church and morality. It was a mockery of God and the sacrament of baptism, an occasion of great public scandal and an abuse of the child (whom the Church ought to be protecting by demanding that the child be brought up in a God-fearing home with parents who are not engaging in perverse sexual relations. Moreover, it must be acknowledged that the child cannot be brought up in the Faith while living with two women who claim to be two mothers. A child has a father and mother. It is abusive to permit a child to be reared by such people - and the Church should not stop upholding this truth, and the welfare and natural rights of a child to his mother and father, or failing that a married man and woman who will become his adoptive parents. As for being, the first such scandal, Cardinal Bergoglio already permitted a similar scandal in Buenos Aires in 2012, involving a man pretending to be a woman, and a children purchased on order via an IVF clinic and "surrogate mother". The two men, one who is a very famous TV star, Florencia, reject fundamental Church teaching, do not practise the Faith, are in obstinate and manifest grave sin, yet received Holy Communion at the public spectacle. See Gloria TV, Cardinal Bergoglio permitted homosexual ceremony in Buenos Aires basilica, August 2012.
ReplyDeleteThank you for that clear and excellent summary.
ReplyDeleteIf they kissed, surely that is "acting out".
ReplyDeleteThis is grave scandal that the Church itself has permitted.
...Bring on the fire and brimstone...
Forgive me, Bones, but may I offer my own fanfare for the New World Order Church?
ReplyDeleteCredence Clearwater Revival (1969) "Bad Moon Rising"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BmEGm-mraE
Oh, by the way here's an interesting news item:
""Spectacular ‘blood moon’ lunar eclipse set for April 15"
http://thespacereporter.com/2014/04/spectacular-blood-moon-lunar-eclipse-set-for-april-15/
Sometimes even rock-and-roll have have a prophetic message.
Lynda
ReplyDeleteIt's happening because some priests already "had" the children by abusing them.
If I believe that the Catholic Church is the One True Church, then anything the Church's priests will do, then so will the laity. It's supernatural.
It always comes back to the priests.
This whole thing is a disaster. This is why it is a total farce that the Church separates out the acting out of the homosexual with his "being" a homosexual and only seems to condemn the acts. The Church should aid the homosexual in becoming straight using its whole arsenal (ie Exorcist) and say so in the Catechism.
For some reason, the two lesbians have not separated their acting out (kissing in Church) from their "beingness". It was clearer just calling it a "wicked sin crying out for vengeance". Everybody new what it meant.
They now want a Church wedding. I expect they'll get it. After all my parish priest is always giving out priestly blessings at Communion time, especially inviting people who can't participate in a full Catholic life who just turn up at Christmas and Easter to receive their blessing.
Just wait, if two lesbians can have their baby baptised in Church, a tranny priest can come out and say Mass wearing fishnets, chasuble and a bit of red lippy.... perhaps not though, would that be too much "acting out", or would the priest its just what he is, his "beingness". It's going to get worse, they've got the law on their side.
I sincerely believe that some Cardinals new full well why they were choosing Bergoglio to be pope.
...Only one St John Fisher...
"Is is why it is a total farce that the Church separates out the acting out of the homosexual with his "being" a homosexual and only seems to condemn the acts. The Church should aid the homosexual in becoming straight using its whole arsenal (ie Exorcist) and say so in the Catechism."
ReplyDeleteSounds a little Pentecostal and that's not what is written in the Catechism.
I don't see the point in baptizing the child of a homosexual couple anymore than the point of baptizing the child if a co-habitating heterosexual couple as Pope Francis recently did. Either way there is no reasonable hope that the child will be raised Catholic as canon law requires.
ReplyDeletePerhaps after the October synod, sex outside of sacramental marriage wiill no longer be considered a serious sin. If this is what is snaking it's way up the Vatican plumbing, such baptisms will be commonplace in the future.
Dang it---forgot to sign my last post as Kim in Seattle.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGod bless, Mr Bones(oi, Liam, now you've done it - 'badmoonrising' is stuck in my brain ( remember the moment on the moors in American werewolf?!).
ReplyDeletethere is no true Theo any logical any for this spectacle other than now we feel compelled to oo and aaaaaah before unGodly any this or other.
where's Mr Newton and Chevy Chase we there's nothing more to say than, Danke Schoen, darling, Danke Schoen.
Liam, don't forget that a similar blood moon is scheduled for mid-October--right when the Synod is taking place. Might it not also be connected to the mid-October peak of Fatima?
ReplyDeleteKim, the usual reasons that non-practising, non-believing mothers or fathers want their child baptised are one or more of the following: to please or placate a concerned believer in the family such as a grandparent; to gain some sort of perceived status or recognition or respectability or acceptance for their sinful relationship; or for the sentimental, aesthetic, pleasurable, social aspects of the rite and celebration centred on their child whom they wish to have introduced to their community, family in a formal way.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, Lynda! I wonder if they had to attend baptism classes. In my parish, the priest requires this.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteUm, er, what, the Catechism that was Cardinal (he, the recipient of the seven-branched candle holder of the Jewish B'nai B'rith lodge, see Eponymous Flower)Schonborn's baby, installer of degenerate modern art (Hrdlicka) in the Stephansdom, funeral giver to notorious Communist, blasphemer and pornographer Hrdlicka, allowing a practicing homosexual to be on a Parish Council...
ReplyDeleteYes, I'm so enthused by Cardinal Schonborn's Catechism...
Pentecostal, Bones? Precious Blood not enough?
"'badmoonrising' is stuck in my brain (remember the moment on the moors in American werewolf?!)".
ReplyDeleteGoodness, Viterbo.
Codgitator, perhaps it'll be taken as a sign to blow up the 'Dome of Rock' and start building the Third Temple?
@viterbo,
ReplyDelete"Liam, now you've done it - 'badmoonrising' is stuck in my brain ( remember the moment on the moors in American werewolf?!).
Sure do. Pray that we do not have to flee from such wolves. (remember that paraphrase?)
@Codgitator (Cadgertator) 4 'Blood Moons', I think, 2 on Passover. For what it's worth here is a link expanding on the topic.
"APOCALYPSE NOW: Why a rare astrological event TONIGHT could herald the 'End of Days"
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/469228/Four-blood-moons-Does-alignment-of-Mars-Earth-and-Sun-mean-the-end-of-the-world-is-nigh
357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity [Cf. Gen 19:1-29; Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10], tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."[Cf.
ReplyDeletePersona Humana
] They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Catholic/2002/01/The-Roman-Catholic-Churchs-Official-Teaching-On-Homosexuality.aspx#udz4cfPtUmIBWmuY.99
I do not believe that the CCC is a document that is certified 100% correct. After all, if they can throw out the Baltimore Catechism they can later throw out the CCC. And then, who wrote those paragraphs concerning homosexuality? I have never agreed with them as they allow a homosexual couple to be good Catholics as long as they are celibate. Just like the couple above, kissing and living together as a married couple but not partaking in sexual relations, as if they could in the natural way. No, a lot has been purposely changed within the Church the past 50 years. And it ain't kosher!
ReplyDeleteWoody
Who is to say that a baptism has not taken place before for a homosexual couple's child. This is just the first one publicized. It was chosen because it is from the country of the pope. Just like all of the court cases that challenged church doctrine it was pushed to make a statement. There are so many "gay" churches where the priest allows practicing gay couples to have a full sacramental life,except for marriage. There are many parochial schools that allow gay parent to enroll kids. These women were the first to be set up as the example for change.
ReplyDeleteThere was an infamous case in Buenos Aires in 2012. See Gloria Tv: Cardinal Bergoglio Permitted Homosexual Ceremony in Buenos Aires Basilica.
DeleteNot to belabour the '4 blood moons' and solar eclipse shortly to come (see my link above) but it occurred to me that WW1 began 100 years ago this coming August and WW2 (effectively) began 75 years ago this coming September with the invasion of Poland.
ReplyDeleteOn 25 January 1938 the Great Solar Aurora (blood red mostly) occurred over large parts of the world.
Sister Lucy of Fatima said before the start of WW2 that God would send a sign:
"When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given to you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father."
I'm not crediting this 'blood moon' thing one way or the other, but it gives one pause and inclines one to greater prayer and penance in any event.
Peace
Are you ready for married priests? Francis has said OK in principle!
ReplyDeleteI see Liam Ronan has mentioned the 'End of Days'. I also see that Harold Camping who 'predicted' the Rapture - several times - has just died. There is an interesting obit on the Daily Telegraph website.
ReplyDeleteLydia - comment 1.
ReplyDeleteDon't u think your exaggerating, being dramatic and overly pessimistic about this minor matter? Surely it's not that bad?
I presume your tongue is firmly in your cheek ... !!
Delete@Pelerin,
ReplyDelete"I see Liam Ronan has mentioned the 'End of Days'."
Not too be overly nitpicky, I mentioned the unusual astronomical events which are expected in the immediate future. The link I provided was purely for broader reportage with respect to the events.
Jesus say no one knows when 'The End' will come, nor do I make such a claim. I do note however, God has made use of signs in the heavens in the past (scripture is filled with such) to signal chastisements, victories in battle, etc. Fatima has the Miracle of the Sun.
I merely suggest that it is important to pray and due penance, wait and watch.
In any event the end will come for us all one day and of that we must be ever mindful.
At least some parts of the Church are still advertising the Truth:
ReplyDelete"The Church, source of sanctity in private lives; the Church, source of civilization, of order and of peace in public life. Mother of saints, Mother of Virgins, Mother of Martyrs, Mother of the Apostles, Mother of Doctors, Mother of liberators from slavery, Mother of healers, Mother of hospitals, Mother of orphanages, Mother of shelters, Mother of schools, Mother of universities, Mother of the dignity of family life, Mother of respect for women, Mother of chivalry, Mother of the teachers of peoples, Mother protector of the arts, Mother of Gregorian chant, Mother of our basilicas, and of our cathedrals, Mother of two Teresas, Mother of Francis, Mother of Bonaventure, of Thomas, of Ignatius, of Vincent."
from republished piece in the Remnant:
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/524-confronting-crisis-in-the-church-by-standing-firm-at-the-foot-of-the-cross