This is a salutary video by Michael Voris on Popewars taking place within the Church. I take Michael Voris's point. Food for thought. Stop criticising Pope Francis everyone! But Cardinal Dolan's fair game...When I saw the title of one of Michael's latest videos I thought, 'Stop with the interviews'? This one must surely be about His Holiness!'
If Pope Francis died tomorrow and Cardinal Dolan was elected Pope, but Cardinal Dolan continued to say some things Cardinal Dolan's been saying, or does those kind of things Cardinal Dolan does, chortle-chortle, guffaw guffaw, does Cardinal Dolan automatically get a 'free pass' from Michael Voris? Just asking!
If there is a battle going on in the Church - and there is - I would have thought that it would be one that Mr Voris was keen on fighting, simply because it is centered upon the Pope, yes, but only because he is the Guardian of the Deposit of Faith. The battle between the 'left' and the 'right', which is really the heretics and schismatics Michael enjoys lambasting and the faithful Catholics, is about the Magisterium and essentially it is about Truth.
This battle is not really about the Pope but the Man in Whose place he stands as Vicar on Earth. It is about Jesus Christ. It is about the Magisterium that the Successor of St Peter guards with his life and what happens if guarding the Magisterium appears to be a low priority for a particular Pope at a time when it is most zealously opposed.
What troubles me about Voris's piece on the 'left and the right' is that everyone is to blame - those on the 'left' and those on the 'right' - everyone that is, but the personality at the centre of the confusion and the war that hinges on the Pope.
Meanwhile, if a Catholic remains silent when turmoil and tumult erupts following the latest Papal interview that suggests the Church could get along with same-sex civil unions, you've been a 'good and faithful Catholic', even though if a Cardinal or Bishop says the same, and you remain silent, you are 'siding with the enemy'.
If the Pope says something weird that appears to be in contradiction to the Magisterium and thus draws anger and confusion from Catholics, because it seems to be an obfuscation of the message of the Gospel, then why would Catholics who respectfully suggest the Pope, the Shepherd, has said something or done something that appears in contradiction to the Gospel be to blame for the loss of souls?
There is also some historical inaccuracy in Michael Voris's presentation. Martin Luther seemed concerned about corruption in the Church for a while, at the start but it turned out that his real war was on the Catholic Faith that he sought to 'reform' - hence his dogma that faith alone saved and decision to view himself, and not the Catholic Church, as the final arbiter of Sacred Scripture.
With all that said, now that Michael Voris has made me feel terrible for raising concerns about the direction of the pontificate of Pope Francis, if you are Catholic and are tempted to go to the SSPX, for the sake of your soul, do not leave, stay, offer up your sufferings and pray for Pope Francis and for the Lord's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
If Pope Francis died tomorrow and Cardinal Dolan was elected Pope, but Cardinal Dolan continued to say some things Cardinal Dolan's been saying, or does those kind of things Cardinal Dolan does, chortle-chortle, guffaw guffaw, does Cardinal Dolan automatically get a 'free pass' from Michael Voris? Just asking!
If there is a battle going on in the Church - and there is - I would have thought that it would be one that Mr Voris was keen on fighting, simply because it is centered upon the Pope, yes, but only because he is the Guardian of the Deposit of Faith. The battle between the 'left' and the 'right', which is really the heretics and schismatics Michael enjoys lambasting and the faithful Catholics, is about the Magisterium and essentially it is about Truth.
This battle is not really about the Pope but the Man in Whose place he stands as Vicar on Earth. It is about Jesus Christ. It is about the Magisterium that the Successor of St Peter guards with his life and what happens if guarding the Magisterium appears to be a low priority for a particular Pope at a time when it is most zealously opposed.
Meanwhile, if a Catholic remains silent when turmoil and tumult erupts following the latest Papal interview that suggests the Church could get along with same-sex civil unions, you've been a 'good and faithful Catholic', even though if a Cardinal or Bishop says the same, and you remain silent, you are 'siding with the enemy'.
If the Pope says something weird that appears to be in contradiction to the Magisterium and thus draws anger and confusion from Catholics, because it seems to be an obfuscation of the message of the Gospel, then why would Catholics who respectfully suggest the Pope, the Shepherd, has said something or done something that appears in contradiction to the Gospel be to blame for the loss of souls?
There is also some historical inaccuracy in Michael Voris's presentation. Martin Luther seemed concerned about corruption in the Church for a while, at the start but it turned out that his real war was on the Catholic Faith that he sought to 'reform' - hence his dogma that faith alone saved and decision to view himself, and not the Catholic Church, as the final arbiter of Sacred Scripture.
With all that said, now that Michael Voris has made me feel terrible for raising concerns about the direction of the pontificate of Pope Francis, if you are Catholic and are tempted to go to the SSPX, for the sake of your soul, do not leave, stay, offer up your sufferings and pray for Pope Francis and for the Lord's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
You speak the truth. What is clearly wrong, and is causing great confusion and fear, is that if some of the things the Pope has said and done were said and done by anyone else, they would be strongly objected to, but because it is the Pope nothing is said or some kind of tortuous rationalising is employed to explain it away. This clear inconsistency is not good for the Faith. We can see straight through it and it is very damaging as people can't trust these commentators to speak the truth without fear or favour. If the Pope does or says something that is not in keeping with unchanging deposit of Faith or morals, then it should be dealt with objectively as it would have been if he were just any bishop. Why is it so few, particularly it seems in the English-speaking world, are maintaining objectivity with regard to the Pope and things he's said or done?? Do they think people will not notice the inconsistency? Michael Voris does great work but he needs to treat what the Pope says or does in the same way he would if he were still Archbishop of Buenos Aires. When a simple bishop says or does things which appear to oppose the deposit of Faith and morals, it's very harmful; when the Pope does so, it is even more harmful, as we have seen. I ask orthodox Catholic commentators and writers to continue to object to those things done by the Pope that they'd object to and do object to, in other bishops. I and many others are worn out by all of the apparent dishonesty or cowardice. It's as if one is supposed to refuse to jettison one's critical faculties where the Pope is concerned. However, there are some Catholics who have continued to condemn things after Pope Francis that they rightly condemned (along with all orthodox Catholics) when Benedict was Pope. These are the people that will go down in history as having maintained fidelity to God and His Church, no matter who is Pope, or whether or not the Pope is saying or doing some things that he should not. Robert de Mattei, Gnocchi and Mario Palmaro RIP are great exemplars, 100% true to the unchangeable deposit of Faith, and the moral law. Mr Palmaro seems to have been a very holy man, and he was certainly heroic in speaking truth to power. I hope his recent essays will be properly translated into English and many other languages so that people may be encouraged not to be intimidated into not speaking out about erroneous statements by a Pope. Robert de Mattei sets out our duties as Catholics very clearly in his response to Fr Livio, director of Radio Maria, when he was wrongly axed. "They first came for the Jews but I was not a Jew so I did nothing ... "
ReplyDeleteCMTV, I presume, have backers to keep happy. But it's hypocritical - if dolan did become pope, one has to assume he would, from then on, get a free pass.
ReplyDelete-
that's one thing, but to now make it part of his apostolate to do the bergoglio on faithful sheeps is way out of bounds. the confusion, and falling away from the faith this pope has promulgated grows everyday - and now it would seem Voris is willing to jump onto that steam roller.
when public figures who have great authority or fame (kind of translates to the same thing this days) betray that great reponsibility and bite the hands that feed them like there was no tomorrow - for me I call into question their whole 'product' and wonder what their initial aim was and if it in fact has always been the same. to mess with the Truth Faith and mislead souls (whether consciously or not is God's concern).
Our Lady of Good Success, Ora pro nobis.
As I have often spoke of this pontificate, neither doom and gloom, nor sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes he (Pope Francis) is misrepresented, other times it's the words of Pope Francis himself that are the problem. (The Book of Insults (TM)...are enough to describe the problems)...
ReplyDeleteBut really, I think the attack on Dolan is a subverted way of attacking the Holy Father for the same points. I too thought that the interview vortex was going to be on Pope Francis. He's correct on the Dolanism though, I wish he'd see it to it's logical conclusion. (I believe he was a seminarian for the Archdiocese of NY, so there might be something at play....
While I most certainly can see where he's coming from, I respectfully disagree with his conclusion, error is error whether it's coming from Dolan, or Pope Francis, and they need to be called on it. (As always in charity)....
Don't feel terrible Mr. Laurence - you have always written with humour and charity and have never attacked the person of the POpe.
ReplyDeleteYou express with talent the concern that MANY serious Catholics are experiencing - I wouldn't come to your blog every day if it were not so - you above all have a great Sense of what it is to be Catholic...which encompasses totally the personal and social aspects of life ..and seeing the truth for what it is... painful as it may be.
I love your blog - and have sent others to it.
We do not love Criticising the Pope - it is the last thing a good Catholic wants to do ...
We say in Italy that people who do not want to see or hear the truth have prosciutto on their eyes and ears...
Yours is one of the best blogs and thus "Catholic meeting places" around to keep the prosciutto off the eyes and ears ...
Even if we are few (4 cats - we say in Italian - quattro gatti)we gain strength from each other - we have a battle going on that is tremendous and so need all the help we can get.
Traditional Catholics are the outcast once again ...I hope to resist - as where I live there are few Traditional Catholics around. - I have to travel 65K every Sunday to the TLM - where we are from similar situations - but all love the same thing - the True Catholic Mass - the only thing worth living for.
I don't want anything but the real thing - only Catholic perennial teaching for 2000 years has that - I want nothing to do anymore with phony, modernist concoctions - the truth can't be destroyed anyway - and Our Lord said it would be like this in the end - a small flock - going thru' His same Passion...
I like Mr. Voris and he hope sees the light...as he shouldn't be going around ticking other Catholics off just becasue there is no prosciutto on their eyes and ears!
They are trying to wear Traditional Catholics down - for us to give up - to attack us simply because we see the destruction going on ...they want to make us feel guilty because we criticise. they want us to shut up and compromise...but it is a Grace - that is unexplainable to those who do not have it - and for me it would be better to die than compromise as I couldn't live with myself afterwards.
I have you on my prayer list.
Barbara
"If Pope Francis died tomorrow and Cardinal Dolan was elected Pope, but Cardinal Dolan continued to say some things Cardinal Dolan's been saying, or does those kind of things Cardinal Dolan does, chortle-chortle, guffaw guffaw, does Cardinal Dolan automatically get a 'free pass' from Michael Voris? Just asking!"
ReplyDeleteYes, he will get a free pass.
CMTV stated that they never ever will criticise a Pope:
http://www.harvestingthefruit.com/cmtvs-mystery-manifesto/
They stultified themselves. Watching CMTV is a waste of time.
In their "manifesto" CMTV attacked the Remnantnewspaper and John Vennari.
Pope Bashing? The Remnant Answers Its Critic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLN2u0PLOa8&list=TLz3HJiJIMjbR3aonGDQi4m6B-iqVfdIVT
http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/355-ecclesiastical-pornography
A Response to Michael Voris' assault against Traditional Catholic Writershttp://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/751b83874a7bdfab126e65e854b51207-193.html
so they never will criticize a pope but are all in good conscience about slandering their peers.
ReplyDelete-
i agree, Barbara - the war of attrition bergoglio and his buddies have been waging against the faith and the faithful, places like cmtv are joining those ranks. perhaps they think they are big enough to play that game now. what a joke, one their staple ads was, 'my people perish for lack of knowledge.' I wonder how slamming Michael Matt, Christopher Ferrara and John Vennari - solid teachers of the Faith, and fairy dusting the fomentor of the FX, is exactly going to increase people's knowledge of the truth?
The "lefties" not only hate the Office of the Papacy but the WHOLE Faith. The so-called "Not in Full Communion" not only LOVE the Office of the Papacy" but are simply preserving the WHOLE Faith. Michael Voris said, "Does the Pope sometimes say things that are confusing or could be said better? Sure...EVERYONE does..." then you should not criticize Cardinal Dolan because I'm sure he could have said things "better".
ReplyDelete"The situation of the members of this Society [SSPX] is
an internal matter of the Catholic Church. The Society
is not another Church or Ecclesial Community in the
meaning used in the Directory. Of course, the Mass
and Sacraments administered by the priests of the
Society are valid. "
-- Letter from the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity
Cardinal Edward Cassidy, President (3 May,1994)
“This fact was confirmed again just last year, when the Diocese of Richmond was forced to retract its own previous statement that the SSPX was in schism.”
Chris Jackson | Remnant Columnist Feb. 2014
SAFE
CHURCH
In the middle of the Church
There’s a very safe spot
Where it’s not very cold
And it’s not very hot.
You can say a little prayer
In a Latin cant one day,
On another take the Host
Serve yourself, walk away.
It’s the middle of the Church
And a very safe spot
Where it’s not very cold
And it's not very hot.
There are no schools for minds
Or for little Catholic souls
But at least there are no fights
How to clean the toilet bowls
For the classrooms they are empty
And the lavatories too,
No daily Mass, no Catholic class
For little Don and Sue
But it’s really very middle
In a very safe spot
Where it’s not very cold
And it’s not very hot.
Approved, they have their many
The New have many too
Like “full communion” governors
A Cuomo in the pew.
The REC brings in much money.
The New says “that is great!”
And priests who say both old & new
Can really celebrate...
For he’s really in the middle
In a very safe spot
Where it’s not very cold
And it’s not very hot.
Full communion say the Old,
Full communion say the New,
And many in the middle just
Accommodate the two...
For they'll keep you in the middle
In a luke warm spot
Where you’ll never fight the cold
And you’ll never fight the hot!
Yep, Voris has got it wrong here I think and you are right with your analysis. I can understand that the Pope is a special case but, as someone else has said, error is error, and needs to have light shone on it. For consistency and credibility, Voris - whose work I like very much generally - should now apply the same rules to all the ordained of different stripes that he regularly bites chucks out of (rightfully in most cases, I believe). I wonder whether he is seeing a new silencing trend beginning and is trying to rack up some brownie points as a protective mechanism. Be consistent, Michael!
ReplyDeleteDon't let Michael Voris (whom I enjoy in small doses) make you feel bad about criticising the Pope (any Pope). The Pope is only infallible in very limited circumstances. Most of the time he is as prone as the rest of us to getting things wrong, though we should be able to feel confident that in matters of faith and Church governance- his 'job'- he will be more likely than us to get things right.
ReplyDeleteI would be willing to bet that most Catholics who are now critical of Francis had no intention of so being when he was first elected and no idea of the confusion he was going to sow. Having lost a Pope I valued I hoped for a new one I could respect equally. I certainly didn't want or expect what we have. Yes, he's the Pope and I pray for him. Not much else one can do, since neither my opinion or Michael Voris' is of any interest to the Pope. He can't be deselected! And rightly so - he answers to God in the end.
Voris is making a clown of himself now.
ReplyDeleteWhat a shame.
Very fine insights in the article. I have recently written an article on my blog that also reflects on criticizing the pope. If interested, please feel free to check it out at:
ReplyDeletehttp://vlogicusinsight.wordpress.com/2014/03/05/only-god-is-beyond-public-criticism-not-the-holy-father/
God Bless!
DB
If he does a programme on the wrongful suppression of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, I may keep my subscription to CMTV.
ReplyDeleteA well-reasoned article. In a recent blog article on the topic of criticizing the Pope, I wrote the following:
ReplyDeleteVoris simply does not understand the call to also imitate Christ regarding appropriate criticism of the pope, and the secondary call to also imitate the example of the Saints in this regard. If Our Lord could and did criticize the first pope, and if St. Paul could and did criticize the first pope (and such criticisms are memorialized in the Scriptures, thereby making the criticisms Public and Present at all times), then others can imitate them and criticize the Holy Father in an appropriate manner prescribed by Church teachings. Our Lord and St. Paul did not back away from so criticizing Pope Peter because of concerns that ‘such criticisms could possibly harm the Church and potential converts.’
So as Our Lord, St. Paul, and others clearly demonstrate, it is the Truth above all else that must be defended, even if this entails criticizing the Holy Father in his decisions that are not protected by the Holy Spirit. Moreover, if criticizing the Holy Father in an appropriate way can better serve the Truth, to not do so can actually cause more harm to the Church.
DB
Omnia Vincit Veritas
It can actually amount to sin to not speak out against attacks on the doctrine of the Faith and morals. Robert de Mattei describes very well our duties in this regard in his response to Fr Livio of Radio Maria last month after he was axed for his criticisms of things said or done by the Pope, to the defence of the Tradition of the Faith and morals.
Deletefrom fetzen-fliegen:
ReplyDeletehttp://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/355-ecclesiastical-pornography
at least we don't identify with the guy on the right....or the left...and thankfully, not even the middle.
One must be MUCH MORE circumspect when criticizing the Pope, especially when the Pope is teaching officially. Think of the criticism of Pope Paul VI's encyclical condemning artificial birth control, "Humanae Vitae". However, with Pope Francis we are not seeing much (any?) official teaching of a high order, other than his weekly talks, tweets, and diplomatic speeches. Most criticism is aimed at Pope Francis' interviews,conversations, and actions - which I think is notable and significant (of something...) Francis, I would say, is AVOIDING making doctrinal or morally binding statements, hence he is leaving himself open to criticism. The statement that St. Paul criticized St. Peter must be amended that Paul criticized Peter's BEHAVIOR, not his teaching, and did so with other stalwarts of the Faith backing him up with tons of evidence. So, I would like to see a MORE CAREFUL critique of Francis' that is quite specific in objectionable points, and not by lone sharks, but by allied groups and individuals signing off on a document and presenting it to the Pope and Catholic public. It's no time to be taking pot shots at the Pope, no rabble rousing, but faithful sons and daughters acting prudentially and in full Faith.
ReplyDeletehttp://tinyurl.com/mlgxaf8
ReplyDeleteTHE
DEACON’S
ROAR
I used to bite my tongue and hold my breath
Scared to rock the Barque and make a mess
So I sat quietly, obeyed politely
Ignored what learned in Baltimore
Forgot the Church that’s marked by Four
I stood for nothing, so I fell for everything
You made me sit, but I knelt down
Dusty sandals brushed on ground
You hear my voice, you hear that sound
Roaring Rosaries all around
You made me sit, but I knelt down
Get ready ‘cause I’ve had enough
I see it all, I see it now
We’ve caught the eye of the Tibre, we’re fighters, dancing through the fire
‘Cause we are Catholic and we’re gonna say our “Roar” sries
Louder, louder than the lion
‘Cause we are Catholic and they’re gonna hear us roar
Oh oh oh oh oh oh
Oh oh oh oh oh oh
Oh oh oh oh oh oh
They’re gonna hear us roar
Blogs are flyin’ like a butterfly
Stinging like a bee for Truth we’ll die
They call you zero, but you’re a hero
They made you stop, but you kneel down
Dusty sandals brushed on ground
They hear your voice, they hate that sound
Like lightening gonna strike Hell’s hound
They made you stop, but you kneel down
Get ready ‘cause I’ve had enough
I see it all, I see it now
We’ve caught the eye of the Tibre, we’re fighters, dancing through the fire
‘Cause we are Catholic and we’re gonna say our “Roar” sries
Louder, louder than the lion
‘Cause we are Catholic and they’re gonna hear us roar
Oh oh oh oh oh oh
Oh oh oh oh oh oh
Oh oh oh oh oh oh
They’re gonna hear us roar….
Ro-oar, ro-oar, ro-oar, ro-oar, “Roar”sries!!!
with apologies to Katy Perry’s, ROAR
(“even a stopped watch is right twice a day”)
The statement that St. Paul criticized St. Peter does not need to be amended, because the issue is any public criticism of the Pope. Even so, what was the purpose of Paul's criticism of Peter's behavior, and why was it memorialized for all time in the Scriptures? Was it just a friendly admonition to avoid acting with bad manners, or was there something more involved in properly representing the Faith?
ReplyDeleteAccordingly, when the Pope makes sloppy and/or misleading statements that could harm the truth, properly criticizing him for such is another form of criticizing his behavior...in the manner of St. Paul.
I cancelled my subscription to CMTV when they criticised Cardinal Dolan (rightly) for admitting that he had rarely spoken in a homily about sexual matters. He said this in response to the Pope saying that the Church seemed obsessed with those matters. So Dolan, in admitting his own failure, was indirectly but clearly contradicting the Pope's false statement. But CMTV went for Dolan and made no comment on the Pope's wildly inaccurate assertion - a ridiculous position to take. What will they do when the Synod (whose leading member's cards are already on the table) recommends that the divorce and remarried be admitted to the sacraments and the Pope agrees? What will it take?
ReplyDelete"The Christian faithful are free to make known their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires to the pastors of the Church." (Canon 212, P2)
ReplyDelete"In accord with the knowledge, competence and preeminence which they possess, they have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard for the integrity of faith and morals and reverence toward their pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons." (Canon 212, P3)
Catholic bloggers should not be impeded from exercising their rights--and duties--as faithful Catholics.
Although some of your words seemed to have merit, in my opinion your credibility took a big hit in your last paragraph, when you equated going to the SSPX with somehow "leaving" the Church. That not only bears false witness but suggests a limited knowledge of the true Faith as infallibly taught for centuries.
ReplyDeleteDo the SSPX enjoy full communion with the Successor of St Peter?
ReplyDeleteWell the Church has said they are not in schism. They are not canonically regularised though.
Delete