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| Pope Francis: Is the honeymoon over? |
Tim Padgett writes...
'Papal statements often get the same breathless scrutiny that’s usually lavished on cryptic symbols in Dan Brown novels. So it’s hardly surprising that the world, especially Roman Catholics like myself, is breathlessly decoding what Pope Francis told reporters on his flight back to Rome from Brazil on Monday regarding homosexuality:
“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”
As TIME’s Stephen Faris has noted, while the Pope’s remarks might be a welcome and humane sentiment, they hardly represent a break with Catholic church doctrine, which still condemns homosexuality. The Vatican’s catechismal stance regarding the LGBTs in our midst remains the same: The church may love the sinner, but it hates the sin. And since Francis was referring specifically to gay priests—who like other Catholic clerics take a vow of celibacy and so don’t commit the “sin”— His Holiness wasn’t exactly going out on a theological limb.'
When are non-Catholics going to understand the basics of Catholicism?
The Pope is Catholic. The Catholic Church has always condemned homosexual acts as contrary to Divine and natural law and no Pope will ever have the authority to remove or erase the Truth from the Deposit of Faith. There will always be a large section of society - perhaps even a large section of the Church - who cannot accept what the Church proclaims concerning sin and Salvation.
From each and every Pope is expected a reversal of Catholic doctrine. Sorry, guys, it isn't going to happen and if it ever did...well...it won't. No Pope has the authority to make the truth a lie or to make lies into truth.
How sadly predictable it is that the Pope has courted such favourable headlines until His Holiness presents, in a very charitable manner, what the Catechism has to say on homosexuality. If only the 'gay lobby' would change the record, or at least try Side B - see things from a different angle as the Pope is trying to present it.
Being forgiven by Jesus and asking for the grace not to do it again isn't that hard, guys, even if going to Confession can be embarrassing and humiliating, but God raises up those who are lowly and are burdened by sins and crowns the humble and contrite of heart.
Really, its a great relief, take it from me, whenever Jesus takes our sins away from us in Confession whether our sins be great or not so great, but each and every sin can be forgiven in the Sacrament of Penance.
You think I'm uptight? If only the gays would lighten up and embrace Jesus's love that He wants to pour out onto us. We cannot get to Heaven without Jesus and He wants to save everyone!
Being anti-gay is not a bascic of Catholicism and being intolerant is not a Christian virtue.
ReplyDeleteOne ought to be intolerant of evil.
DeleteBones: by the standards of that rag "Time", I think the bits you quoted actually had some sort of objectivity. That said, I haven't got into the rest. But at least they did quote actual Catholic doctrine and (it seems) try for once to put it into perspective, difficult enough as that must have been for them, the poor dears. I think this may be a sort of "wha' the ++++" moment for them when they realise that easy templates they've been spewing out as per usual don't apply. But now watch them turn on him. Or maybe not. Given the propensity for sound bites there's probably a good bit more spin to be got. But eventually they'll get tired of their new toy and the Agenda will reassert itself.
ReplyDeleteThe basics of Catholicism in this regard (with regard to homosexuality) is expressed as well as it can be in the Catechism.
ReplyDelete2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
If you have a problem with that, then you don't accept the Catholic Faith.
The church is anti-homosexual acts - not anti homosexual persons.
ReplyDeleteYou might as well complain about the Church's position on adultery.
My advice: Stop whining and embrace the mercy and love of God in Confession and the Most Holy Eucharist.
Jesus loves us!
Have you read his interview in full? The pope states quite clearly there is nothing wrong with homosexuality rather there is a problem with gay lobbying. That is totally false, there is a problem with being gay, its a flaw and not the way God intended someone to be. Moreover the pope differentiates between people 'inclined that way' and 'gays', this presumably means people who engage in homosexual conduct. There is certainly something wrong with the latter sort of people, St Paul is quite clear they will go to hell and God commanded they be put to death numerous times. As for gay priests all being celibate, that is extremely naive, what do you think paedophiles are? It's well documented that the majority of paedophilic priests attack boys and its well documented that there is a problem with homosexual priests and bishops, as well as moonsignors and God forbid maybe even cardinals who engage in homosexual behaviour and the use of male prostitutes and running sex rings. Again, all this has been documented by both catholic and non catholic media, the police etc... To claim that all this is the media being 'naughty' is, I'm afraid, totally false. Pope Francis made some very unfortunate remarks, though his gay remarks pale in insignificance compared to his remarks about women....
ReplyDeleteHe drew attention to the catechism.
ReplyDelete'The catechism of the Church explains this beautifully...'
Okay, well, His Holiness pointed to one aspect of the Catechism and talks about the Lord's forgiveness.
ReplyDeleteWe know what the catechism says but being anti-gay (or the church's teaching on homosexuality if you will) is not a basic (or fundamental) of Catholicism - nor does the church claim it to be so.
ReplyDeletePope Francis isn't changing catholic teaching on this matter but he is signalling a change of tone... and that's quite significant.
Catholics are surely pro-homosexual persons.
ReplyDeleteBut equally, Catholics are surely anti-homosexual acts either in themselves or others.
Hate the sin, love the sinner.
If we don't hate sin, we are not going to be Saints. If we do not love sinners we are not going to be Saints.
Of course, I am talking about the action - not the person, nor the inclination.
I don't understand why there is any confusion or misunderstanding about this. Bloggers, not least, have been saying it for ages.
This is a relief. I hope the Holy Father continues to make a 'mess' out there in the best possible way.
ReplyDeleteThe pope may well have drawn attention to the catechism but that does not change his words. He explicitly states 'Being gay is not the problem, lobbying is the problem' and in fact in the section I have he does not refer to the catechism. Moreover the pope differentiates between being homosexually inclined and being gay ' There is a distinction between being gay, being this way inclined and lobbying'. Even if we were to say the pope meant that being Gay is being that way inclined, and if so the Popes words were very ambiguous, it is still wrong to say there is nothing wrong with being gay, there is. God did not design people to be gay and it is against nature, it is wrong, its a flaw. Certainly we are not called to be pro-homosexual in any way, we are called to love people of course but we can in no way support the sin and those who define themselves with such a sin, are uniting themselves to the sin or attempting to do so. As for those that way inclined, they must be supported and prayed for to prevent them falling into the trap of 'coming out' and defining themselves by their aberrant sexuality. The confusion arises because some are too eager to define whatever the pope says, even if its extremely ambiguous or wrong and those who are more sceptical and discerning, and yes those in bad faith.
ReplyDeleteLucas: I think you are giving a meaning to "being gay" which the Pope did not intend. I think he meant somebody who has temptations to homosexual actions whilst I think you are implying that "being gay" means somebody who indulges in homosexual sex.
ReplyDeleteThe best translation of what the Pope said appears at:
http://saltandlighttv.org/blog/world-youth-day/a-note-on-the-popes-remarks-to-journalists-en-route-to-rome
But returning to your question more concretely: in this case [Ricca] I did the required investigation and we found nothing. That is the first question. Then you spoke of the gay lobby. Agh… so much is written about the gay lobby. I have yet to find on a Vatican identity card the word gay. They say there are some gay people here. I think that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby, because lobbies are not good. They are bad. If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge that person? The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this point beautifully but says, wait a moment, how does it say, it says, these persons must never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.”
Lucas: Rereading my comment and yours I can see that "being gay" could be understood to mean "being active homosexually". My fear is that many will adopt that interpretation and claim that whilst they are indulging in homosexual activity they are seeking God. Regrettably I think the Pope is being rather naïve in believing that his remarks will not be misinterpreted.
ReplyDeleteThe popes words were very very ambiguous and its very hard to read them in the way you wish, regardless no matter the sense of gay it is wrong, it is not the way God wants us to be or designed to be and that's that. The popes words in full are 'There is so much being written about the gay lobby. I haven’t met anyone in the Vatican yet who has “gay” written on their identity cards. There is a distinction between being gay, being this way inclined and lobbying. Lobbies are not good. If a gay person is in eager search of God, who am I to judge them? The Catholic Church teaches that gay people should not be discriminated against; they should be made to feel welcome. Being gay is not the problem, lobbying is the problem and this goes for any type of lobby, business lobbies, political lobbies and Masonic lobbies' and the source is http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/gmg-26831//pag/2/
ReplyDeleteJust in case we are reading different sources!