tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post752880300814808109..comments2024-01-08T10:10:48.074+00:00Comments on That The Bones You Have Crushed May Thrill: The Real Vice of the LGBT Political Lobby is NarcissicismThe Boneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-10260780144679303582010-05-26T20:00:49.590+01:002010-05-26T20:00:49.590+01:00Hexagonaute,
Absolutely right. From being "...Hexagonaute,<br /><br />Absolutely right. From being "the love that dare not speak its name" homosexuality has become, in some cases, "the love that never bloody well shuts up".Jonathan Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03955408376728340845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-47053133589939538972010-05-25T21:38:15.355+01:002010-05-25T21:38:15.355+01:00Thanks shadowlands. Hope you get back to blogging ...Thanks shadowlands. Hope you get back to blogging soon; missing you already..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-11822476086410050042010-05-25T21:13:00.684+01:002010-05-25T21:13:00.684+01:00I don't understand the compulsion to broadcast...I don't understand the compulsion to broadcast one's sexual orientation. Why does anyone, Catholic or otherwise, feel the need to make it known that they are a gay-... or a straight-...?<br /><br />Sex and sexuality is (or certainly should be) a private thing, so why the need to identify oneself (almost entirely) in terms of one's sexuality?<br /><br />There will not be a LGBT heaven so why the need to be a LGBT-Catholic? It doesn't make any sense, either you are a Catholic and you believe and follow what the Church teaches or you don't. Either you are a Catholic or you are not.Malvenuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03400254883645309815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-52966053577947288312010-05-25T21:12:27.085+01:002010-05-25T21:12:27.085+01:00I don't understand the compulsion to broadcast...I don't understand the compulsion to broadcast one's sexual orientation. Why does anyone, Catholic or otherwise, feel the need to make it known that they are a gay-... or a straight-...?<br /><br />Sex and sexuality is (or certainly should be) a private thing, so why the need to identify oneself (almost entirely) in terms of one's sexuality?<br /><br />There will not be a LGBT heaven so why the need to be a LGBT-Catholic? It doesn't make any sense, either you are a Catholic and you believe and follow what the Church teaches or you don't. Either you are a Catholic or you are not.Malvenuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03400254883645309815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-30221706700234914862010-05-25T13:33:28.774+01:002010-05-25T13:33:28.774+01:00However in this case the ethnic background of this...<em>However in this case the ethnic background of this young black man was a relevant factor since his violent actions were fueled by his homophobic views which (he said) were formed by his evangelical christian beliefs. </em><br /><br />That means his RELIGION is relevant. That has nothing to do with the colour of his skin.stopbeingstupidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14860866633957025571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-65908460136286561782010-05-25T11:09:09.973+01:002010-05-25T11:09:09.973+01:00"let’s be clear that it is the practice of ho..."let’s be clear that it is the practice of homosexuality which is condemned, as is any sex outside marriage, not the orientation."<br /><br />EXACTLY. And this is the point that is not being grasped by militant homosexual activists. It is not the sexual orientation, the state of being homosexual, that is sinful. <br /><br />It is: the act of extra-marital sex that is sinful. For *everyone* be they straight or gay.Michelle Theresehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16185810008704682978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-36125461239583801332010-05-25T09:11:55.176+01:002010-05-25T09:11:55.176+01:00Theresa,
thank you for taking the time to publish...Theresa,<br /><br />thank you for taking the time to publish that statement from the Vatican's attache.mehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962374096401238994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-79684556262635817272010-05-25T00:29:39.530+01:002010-05-25T00:29:39.530+01:00Condemn Uganda,
Could you provide me with some li...Condemn Uganda,<br /><br />Could you provide me with some links and sources please on this.<br /><br />My understanding of the situation re the Catholic church in Uganda is that Archbishop Cyprian Lwanga in his Christmas sermon and a couple of weeks later in January, unequivocally condemned the bill. It was reported in the Daily Monitor; <br /><br />http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/840276/-/wh9b6q/-/index.html<br /><br />Also Fr Philip Bene, the legal attache to the Vatican's UN Mission, had this to say in a panel discussion in reference to Uganda;<br /><br />The Vatican said it opposes discriminatory penal legislation against gay people during a United Nations panel discussion on sexual orientation. Long says the people in attendance were “stunned”. According the Vatican’s statement, delivered by Father Philip Bene, legal attaché to the Holy See’s UN mission:<br />“Thank you for convening this panel discussion and for providing the opportunity to hear some very serious concerns raised this afternoon. My comments are more in the form of a statement rather than a question.<br />As stated during the debate of the General Assembly last year, the Holy See continues to oppose all grave violations of human rights against homosexual persons, such as the use of the death penalty, torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment. The Holy See also opposes all forms of violence and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons, including discriminatory penal legislation which undermines the inherent dignity of the human person.<br />As raised by some of the panelists today, the murder and abuse of homosexual persons are to be confronted on all levels, especially when such violence is perpetrated by the State. While the Holy See’s position on the concepts of sexual orientation and gender identity remains well known, we continue to call on all States and individuals to respect the rights of all persons and to work to promote their inherent dignity and worth.”<br /> <br />I think the titular head of the Ugandan Catholic church and the UN spokesman for the Vatican add up to more than 'a few brave bishops' myself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-15494200873663671982010-05-24T19:45:34.191+01:002010-05-24T19:45:34.191+01:00''The real tragedy is, Laurence seems like...''The real tragedy is, Laurence seems like a nice fella. I think some of these comments are a bit harsh (my own included). Scrub that - a lot harsh. He isn't wicked, and has a great sympathy for gays. I am just a little suspicious about his motives for talking about them non f-ing stop when really two men having sex is a drop in the ocean of the world's evils.<br />''<br /><br />You can only judge somebody by their deeds, these few articles are pure evil hence this Laurence guy is 100% wicked. He hasn't said anything even to acknowledge that he was in the wrong. It doesn't even appear to have read the comments or taken in any of the information condradicting his false interpretation of catholic teachings on this matter.Give me a break!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-84824085471960396032010-05-24T19:41:09.394+01:002010-05-24T19:41:09.394+01:00''I think the LGBT movement needs to consi...''I think the LGBT movement needs to consider its strategy. If it continues to target the Catholic church and ignore others who are far more hostile to them, then they are going to lose credibility. If they kick people in the teeth who are tolerant of them and rip up and deface their holy book (like they did with the Bible in the Glasgow Museum of Modern Art) they are not going to encourage anyone else to engage with them. ''<br /><br />The gay lobby do campaign vigorously against islamic homophobis and the many gay people who recieve the death sentence each year. I believe there was also a demonstration against the Dali Lama although I think Budhists more generally are much more accepting. The fact remains that the catholic church is the largest homophobic religious institution in this country.Stop picking on catholics, yeah right!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-80288405437065602122010-05-24T19:36:51.852+01:002010-05-24T19:36:51.852+01:00above should read...
and the catholic church WORLD...above should read...<br />and the catholic church WORLDWIDE holds a vast amount of power and influenceCaholic christian (and gay!)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-4250908172294142252010-05-24T19:34:56.174+01:002010-05-24T19:34:56.174+01:00Teresa - ''However, I feel that the gay mo...Teresa - ''However, I feel that the gay movement has chosen to engage with the Catholic church in this country, because we are a minority that it is acceptable to kick, not because we are any more homophobic than anyone else. ''<br /><br />If the Catholic church (or rather a small minority within it) backed off gays and trying to subvert their himan and civil rights, then I think you'd find that gay people would leave the church alone.<br />The catholic church is a minority? - actually it represents the majority of regular church goers in this country and holds a vast amonunt of power and influence. And even if the catholic church is a 'minority' then it shouldn't be constantly attempting to impose it's beliefs on the majority within society. You can't persecute people and then complain when they fight back.Catholic christian (and gay!)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-7273303362207514122010-05-24T19:26:43.265+01:002010-05-24T19:26:43.265+01:00Pilgrim and Suburbarama,
Normally I would agree wi...Pilgrim and Suburbarama,<br />Normally I would agree with you that it is not relevant to mention someones ethnicity when making a report. However in this case the ethnic background of this young black man was a relevant factor since his violent actions were fueled by his homophobic views which (he said) were formed by his evangelical christian beliefs. He attended a (mostly) african evangelical christian church, many of which are known for citing supoosedly biblical interpretations which are used to justify their extreme homophobia.Gay peoples are not treated equally yetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-30182287094071667052010-05-24T19:17:35.298+01:002010-05-24T19:17:35.298+01:00teresa - actually the ugandan catholic church has ...teresa - actually the ugandan catholic church has not come out officially against the proposed death penalty against those suspected of homosexuality, but the anglican church has particuarly the archbishop of canterbury. indeed it has been the most vocal group against the government on this matter. <br />a few brave catholic bishops have been critical but overall the bishops conference is divided on the issue (and some native born members of the hierachy actually supportive) and therefore prefered not to 'rock the boat' in case the church suffers sanctions.<br />given the gravity and inherent injustice of the situation, i would have thought the worldwide catholic church would have been making loud noises and a strong statement from the pope himself. alas, again nothing but silence from the catholic church.Condemn Ugandanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-33034190415969216162010-05-24T16:53:06.397+01:002010-05-24T16:53:06.397+01:00"You just had to mention the fact he was blac..."You just had to mention the fact he was black, didn't you?<br /><br />How on earth is that at all relevant?"<br /><br />My thoughts exactly.Pilgrimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-42572943969801653172010-05-24T16:42:58.760+01:002010-05-24T16:42:58.760+01:00"He was stabbed by a young black man who cite...<em>"He was stabbed by a young black man who cites his evangellical christian beliefs to justify his horrendous and unprovoked attack. Before the attack the young black man and friends had been shouting homophobic abuse to various gay people travelling around the area. </em><br /><br />You just had to mention the fact he was black, didn't you?<br /><br />How on earth is that at all relevant?stopbeingstupidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14860866633957025571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-6833266303113159762010-05-24T01:25:48.725+01:002010-05-24T01:25:48.725+01:00Can I point out to 'Uganda Kills Gays' tha...Can I point out to 'Uganda Kills Gays' that the Catholic church in Uganda was the only church to come out completely against the proposals to legislate against gays?<br /><br />I think Laurence's post is immoderate, but I think it is borne of the intense frustration that I and other Catholics feel at the LGBT movement constantly targeting our church. The fact that gays can go into one of our public services and put on sashes confident that noone will lay a finger on them, gives the lie to the assertion that we are raving homophobes. In other places it would be a gesture far less welcome and met with far more censure.<br /><br />I have some sympathy with the gay movement as a Catholic. I recognise that they, like us, suffered unjust discrimination in jobs and status and although I disapprove of homosexual acts, I do not see why gays should be singled out any more than anyone else. However, I feel that the gay movement has chosen to engage with the Catholic church in this country, because we are a minority that it is acceptable to kick, not because we are any more homophobic than anyone else. Other religions like Islam and Buddhism teach that homosexual acts are sinful; we are not unique in that regard, yet I don't remember anyone organising an 'Arrest the Dalai Lama' campaign when he came here some years ago.<br /><br />I think the LGBT movement needs to consider its strategy. If it continues to target the Catholic church and ignore others who are far more hostile to them, then they are going to lose credibility. If they kick people in the teeth who are tolerant of them and rip up and deface their holy book (like they did with the Bible in the Glasgow Museum of Modern Art) they are not going to encourage anyone else to engage with them. Over to you, guys..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-78925311623430952302010-05-23T23:32:17.956+01:002010-05-23T23:32:17.956+01:00Look, suppose Razinger (sic) came out next Easter ...Look, suppose Razinger (sic) came out next Easter and said: “If you are gay don’t have sex; if you are straight never, under any circumstances, have sex other than to produce a child . . . . . . . . . .and that applies to everyone”<br /><br />"I would be impressed. A man who has the courage to say what he thinks, and to reveal the full implications of his moral system." <br /><br />Um, yes, that's pretty much the Catholic teaching as already expressed by popes past and present. And, by the way, let’s be clear that it is the practice of homosexuality which is condemned, as is any sex outside marriage, not the orientation.<br /><br />If there is an obsession manifested on this blog it seems to me that it resides in most of the posts which have been intemperate to say the least. When so much has been achieved by the LGBT lobby, why this visceral anger? You see, it smacks not of an insistence on equality, but of an implied primus inter pares.<br /><br />The defilement of the holy sacrifice of the Mass to press an agenda, any agenda, is not only misguided but an insult to Christ by those who profess to love Him. Do not suppose a victory because no-one was turned away from Holy Communion at Westminster Cathedral today. <br /><br />A priest does not have x-ray eyes into the state of individual souls and is bound to suppose that all who present themselves are not in mortal sin.<br /><br />If he does know, then he has betrayed his calling. But greater is the self-betrayal of the communicant who will have derived no real satisfaction but an ache and longing somewhere deep within.georgemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-6285646480434393592010-05-23T22:34:28.505+01:002010-05-23T22:34:28.505+01:00M,
From what I've seen the church operates a &...M,<br />From what I've seen the church operates a "don't ask, don't tell" policy about all sin, including homosexuality. The only place you're meant to unload your sins is in the confessional, and you're certainly not meant to take "pride" in them as this movement encourages. You seem to be saying the church doesn't preach on all those other issues you raise, which is patent nonsense. The difference seems to be, however, that we don't have a loud pro-abortion, or pro-divorce, or pro-premarital sex lobby turning up at our churches courting controversy. The comments from Coffee Catholic are needlessly confrontational, but it's a response provoked by the needlessly confrontational sash protest. Those of us who don't really care about homosexuality are forced onto the defensive when we see people attempting to disrupt the Mass, or attacking our friends for having a homosexual past and not being zealously gay enough.Ronanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07354769607942288540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-66820759597904423952010-05-23T22:28:41.961+01:002010-05-23T22:28:41.961+01:00Bones, you have it exactly right, and from the ren...Bones, you have it exactly right, and from the rent-a-mob comments here you can see that your post hits home rather hard. Those with the sashes, or other 'here I am, It's me, look at me' symbols are really falling for the sin of pride. It is, as you describe, narcissistic and reminds me of the pharisee standing in the front of the church making sure to be seen to be penitent, whilst the real penitents are elsewhere. Perhaps next week all the adulterers can wear green ribbons? or the thieves can wear striped T shirts and carry 'swag' bags? They really do not understandStainthorpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-31866804259955792422010-05-23T22:04:07.681+01:002010-05-23T22:04:07.681+01:00Look here you twisted old witch, I am a heterosexu...Look here you twisted old witch, I am a heterosexual who has never noticed gays throwing themselves at the media. You are a frigid old cow who can't love another human being and so have to hide behind some sinister cult to express your views. You hate humanity and yourself, you see perversion everywhere because your own horrible mind is perverted. <br /><br />You, Laurence, et al., are the only ones who won't forget gays BECAUSE YOU NEVER BLOODY SHUT UP ABOUT THEM. If a man is into football, or cars, it passes you by. But if they are into men, you notice it and take that as proof positive of their obsession. But it is your obsession. Perhaps you are jealous of the sincerity of their love. But is is deeply ironic that you find such consolation on this issue in Laurence - a gay man who is obsessed with other gay men! You alone do not appreciate the irony, because you alone have the mental capacity of a pea, and the ability to sympathise with humanity of a sex-killer. <br /><br />No one became gay to get attention, but plenty of Catholics became catholic to get attention. Many 'defenders of the faith' on this blog have said 'oooh I know it's not popular to be Catholic these days, but there you go' or 'the most controversial thing is to be a Catholic'. If that's not seeking to get attention I don't know what is. <br /><br />I appreciate your own Catholicism is a result of your low intellect and lack of empathy with human beings, but Laurence, and many others, are drawn to the church for the same reason the terrorist is drawn to the Koran: in a difficult society which lacks moral certainty the easiest way to get attention is to throw your weight behind a retrograde belief system, and then to pick on the few convenient prejudices of it that make you look 'wacky', or a 'deep thinker', or 'eccentric'. Chesterton, the Catholic's boyfriend, was a prime example. A fat old bore who endlessly extolled the virtues of being different. Attention seeking old fartAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-72073998202271471392010-05-23T21:53:43.382+01:002010-05-23T21:53:43.382+01:00Fantastic post. Spot on. You've nailed the rea...Fantastic post. Spot on. You've nailed the real problem: it's not homosexuals that cause gnashing of teeth, but the self-obsessed narcissicism of the "LGBT political lobby." <br /><br />Of course the majority of your commentors totally missed the point due to their over-active feeeEEEeeelings getting in the way. <br /><br />"Yet the Church, and Mr. England, single out gays for condemnation time and again. Why?"<br /><br />Do you really want to know why, "M"? <br /><br />Because gay activists keep throwing their homosexuality into everyone's faces. That's why. You want to know why "gays" keep ending up in the news, on blogs, in the media, and everywhere else? Because they darn well won't let us forget that THEY'RE GAY! <br /><br />All that the LGBT wants is the spotlight. Plain and simple. Like a pack of whiney kids, they're screaming for attenion ~ and the best way to get attention is to play the victim. <br /><br />I'll bet a lot of the folk in LGBT movement aren't really gay ~ they just "became gay" to shock their families and get attention.Michelle Theresehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16185810008704682978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-60284921771340910242010-05-23T21:32:38.179+01:002010-05-23T21:32:38.179+01:00But this isn’t about people simply demanding a cha...But this isn’t about people simply demanding a change in church teachings: the point is that the Church seem to adopt a ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ policy when it comes to offering communion to unmarried people (or to married couples who use contraception, engage in oral sex etc). Are you seriously telling me there are less of these people within the Church than there are gays? No, of course not; there will be millions upon millions more of them. Yet the Church, and Mr. England, single out gays for condemnation time and again. Why? Simply because they are a soft target (no pun intended). They are a group against whom social prejudices are still directed, and therefore fair-game. Look, suppose Razinger came out next Easter and said:<br /> “If you are gay don’t have sex; if you are straight never, under any circumstances, have sex other than to produce a child; boys, upon your life do not let your girlfriends fellate you; girls – don’t even think of it!; and by the way, no wanking either, and that applies to everyone”<br /><br />I would be impressed. A man who has the courage to say what he thinks, and to reveal the full implications of his moral system. But he does not, nor does England. He only ever talks about gays. The actions of a coward who doesn’t dare to say what he really thinks (or who doesn’t think clearly)<br /><br />p.s. “haranguing a man for having a past involving homosexuality”? Hardly – every poster was arguing that being gay is a personal matter – you don’t need to make an issue of it. Laurence is making an issue of it, not, like the LGBT lobby by dancing in the streets, but by haranguing the LGBT lobby for doing so in a manner which is absolutely disproportionate to the threat they pose to society. Laurence is preoccupied with gays, and is clearly unhappy about it. I, for my part, am simply trying to help him get over it. Laurence, mate, if you want to kiss boys then you can. It is not inherently more obscene than kissing girls. St Paul was not the Son of God, he was a writer of letters obeying his own conscience. While he basically held the church together in the early days, his role was as a strategist and interpreter. But since Christ said nada about gays, he couldn’t very well interpret his words. Hence you can discount his own opinions about gays being unnatural (a category which in any case includes many things we do not condemn these days)Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-78301787678216515592010-05-23T21:11:29.424+01:002010-05-23T21:11:29.424+01:00Again with the ever so brave anonymous commentator...Again with the ever so brave anonymous commentators haranguing a man for having a past involving homosexuality...<br /><br />M, as far as I'm aware, the Church doesn't deny communion to those to whom you append the term gay. Again, it seems you mistake disapproval for an act with hatred for the person. And when you accuse Loz of making up Church teaching, if anything he's being much milder than, say, St Paul or Pope B16, who put it in much stronger terms ('abomination' from Paul, and I'm sure there's an oft-quoted Ratzinger line using the term 'evil'). This blog has been consistent in providing a critique of a political lobby, as distinct from gay people, yet this is overlooked for the visceral thrill of condemning someone as a homoprobe.<br /><br />As for comparing blacks in pre-civil rights movement USA with homosexuals in the UK, I find the comparison bizarre. There's about as much prejudice towards my friends and relatives for being gay as there is for them being catholic, or black, or irish, or even married, or with children and the intention to have more. There has been a very welcome move towards greater openness and understanding towards homosexuality in the last 13 years (one of the few good things accomplished by NuLabour), and these days the slightest whiff of discrimination against gays is pounced on by those in authority. Like feminism, the gay movement seems to have achieved the equality it sought, and most of its aims have been absorbed into the mainstream, leaving only the fringe-element crazy people pushing for things like the redefinition of marriage or the lowering of the age of consent for gay sex to 14. For all I know, the lobby may also be campaigning on issues of poverty or the rights of the unborn. I don't pay much attention to the GBLT lobby til it goes out of its way to brand me and my church as 'homophobic' with provocative acts like this rainbow sash nonsense during Mass, and when its supporters turn up on niche-interest blogs like this and go on the attack. There is actually a productive conversation to be had here, if folk could get over frothing at the mouth and insisting Lawrence is saying things that he never actually said.<br /><br />M, you make a good point that the Church critiques all those engaging in sex outside marriage, not just gays. I suspect Loz will do a post on those who lobby for the Church's acceptance of oral sex, premarital sex, divorce, polygamy, bestiality, just as soon as they organise to show up at Mass demanding church teaching be changed to suit their preferences.Ronanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07354769607942288540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-24895190115328846192010-05-23T20:58:14.030+01:002010-05-23T20:58:14.030+01:00Rustybrain, great argument! Good to see the Church...Rustybrain, great argument! Good to see the Church has not stepped down from the mantle of civilisation and education to become a refuge for embittered old men who .... oh wait, it has. <br /><br />Look, at what point will you accept that this post was simply wrong. Theologically ignorant, vicious in tone, and implicitly inconsistent (since he is AGAIN picking exclusively on gays when there are far more people who are in unsanctioned heterosexual relationships receiving communion)<br /><br />The real tragedy is, Laurence seems like a nice fella. I think some of these comments are a bit harsh (my own included). Scrub that - a lot harsh. He isn't wicked, and has a great sympathy for gays. I am just a little suspicious about his motives for talking about them non f-ing stop when really two men having sex is a drop in the ocean of the world's evils.Mnoreply@blogger.com