tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post1545498311310897742..comments2024-01-08T10:10:48.074+00:00Comments on That The Bones You Have Crushed May Thrill: Pope Francis Suffers First Negative Media ReportsThe Boneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-42636119491759392782013-08-02T23:23:43.240+01:002013-08-02T23:23:43.240+01:00One ought to be intolerant of evil. One ought to be intolerant of evil. Lyndanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-55169251754552067702013-07-31T19:13:12.009+01:002013-07-31T19:13:12.009+01:00The popes words were very very ambiguous and its v...The popes words were very very ambiguous and its very hard to read them in the way you wish, regardless no matter the sense of gay it is wrong, it is not the way God wants us to be or designed to be and that's that. The popes words in full are 'There is so much being written about the gay lobby. I haven’t met anyone in the Vatican yet who has “gay” written on their identity cards. There is a distinction between being gay, being this way inclined and lobbying. Lobbies are not good. If a gay person is in eager search of God, who am I to judge them? The Catholic Church teaches that gay people should not be discriminated against; they should be made to feel welcome. Being gay is not the problem, lobbying is the problem and this goes for any type of lobby, business lobbies, political lobbies and Masonic lobbies' and the source is http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/gmg-26831//pag/2/ <br /><br />Just in case we are reading different sources!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17949223086467366799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-30132939462713529512013-07-31T12:37:52.337+01:002013-07-31T12:37:52.337+01:00Lucas: Rereading my comment and yours I can see t...Lucas: Rereading my comment and yours I can see that "being gay" could be understood to mean "being active homosexually". My fear is that many will adopt that interpretation and claim that whilst they are indulging in homosexual activity they are seeking God. Regrettably I think the Pope is being rather naïve in believing that his remarks will not be misinterpreted.Nicolas Bellordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08063019108964247676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-37020984664899127162013-07-31T11:40:27.684+01:002013-07-31T11:40:27.684+01:00Lucas: I think you are giving a meaning to "...Lucas: I think you are giving a meaning to "being gay" which the Pope did not intend. I think he meant somebody who has temptations to homosexual actions whilst I think you are implying that "being gay" means somebody who indulges in homosexual sex. <br /><br />The best translation of what the Pope said appears at:<br /><br />http://saltandlighttv.org/blog/world-youth-day/a-note-on-the-popes-remarks-to-journalists-en-route-to-rome<br /><br /><i>But returning to your question more concretely: in this case [Ricca] I did the required investigation and we found nothing. That is the first question. Then you spoke of the gay lobby. Agh… so much is written about the gay lobby. I have yet to find on a Vatican identity card the word gay. They say there are some gay people here. I think that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby, because lobbies are not good. They are bad. If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge that person? The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this point beautifully but says, wait a moment, how does it say, it says, these persons must never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.”</i>Nicolas Bellordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08063019108964247676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-41774212996797978492013-07-31T10:57:00.052+01:002013-07-31T10:57:00.052+01:00The pope may well have drawn attention to the cate...The pope may well have drawn attention to the catechism but that does not change his words. He explicitly states 'Being gay is not the problem, lobbying is the problem' and in fact in the section I have he does not refer to the catechism. Moreover the pope differentiates between being homosexually inclined and being gay ' There is a distinction between being gay, being this way inclined and lobbying'. Even if we were to say the pope meant that being Gay is being that way inclined, and if so the Popes words were very ambiguous, it is still wrong to say there is nothing wrong with being gay, there is. God did not design people to be gay and it is against nature, it is wrong, its a flaw. Certainly we are not called to be pro-homosexual in any way, we are called to love people of course but we can in no way support the sin and those who define themselves with such a sin, are uniting themselves to the sin or attempting to do so. As for those that way inclined, they must be supported and prayed for to prevent them falling into the trap of 'coming out' and defining themselves by their aberrant sexuality. The confusion arises because some are too eager to define whatever the pope says, even if its extremely ambiguous or wrong and those who are more sceptical and discerning, and yes those in bad faith. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17949223086467366799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-39547658627290115392013-07-31T08:45:26.751+01:002013-07-31T08:45:26.751+01:00This is a relief. I hope the Holy Father continues...This is a relief. I hope the Holy Father continues to make a 'mess' out there in the best possible way.BJChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07593104081224026799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-53186793111327067942013-07-31T00:16:58.156+01:002013-07-31T00:16:58.156+01:00Catholics are surely pro-homosexual persons.
But ...Catholics are surely pro-homosexual persons.<br /><br />But equally, Catholics are surely anti-homosexual acts either in themselves or others.<br /><br />Hate the sin, love the sinner.<br /><br />If we don't hate sin, we are not going to be Saints. If we do not love sinners we are not going to be Saints.<br /><br />Of course, I am talking about the action - not the person, nor the inclination.<br /><br />I don't understand why there is any confusion or misunderstanding about this. Bloggers, not least, have been saying it for ages.<br /><br />The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-25202118040462856042013-07-31T00:13:54.133+01:002013-07-31T00:13:54.133+01:00We know what the catechism says but being anti-gay...We know what the catechism says but being anti-gay (or the church's teaching on homosexuality if you will) is not a basic (or fundamental) of Catholicism - nor does the church claim it to be so. <br /><br />Pope Francis isn't changing catholic teaching on this matter but he is signalling a change of tone... and that's quite significant. John Newmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-70401737112514230562013-07-30T22:44:57.760+01:002013-07-30T22:44:57.760+01:00Okay, well, His Holiness pointed to one aspect of ...Okay, well, His Holiness pointed to one aspect of the Catechism and talks about the Lord's forgiveness.<br /><br />The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-66895953021376897902013-07-30T22:41:40.263+01:002013-07-30T22:41:40.263+01:00He drew attention to the catechism.
'The cate...He drew attention to the catechism.<br /><br />'The catechism of the Church explains this beautifully...'The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-45555646112716158332013-07-30T22:22:48.102+01:002013-07-30T22:22:48.102+01:00Have you read his interview in full? The pope stat...Have you read his interview in full? The pope states quite clearly there is nothing wrong with homosexuality rather there is a problem with gay lobbying. That is totally false, there is a problem with being gay, its a flaw and not the way God intended someone to be. Moreover the pope differentiates between people 'inclined that way' and 'gays', this presumably means people who engage in homosexual conduct. There is certainly something wrong with the latter sort of people, St Paul is quite clear they will go to hell and God commanded they be put to death numerous times. As for gay priests all being celibate, that is extremely naive, what do you think paedophiles are? It's well documented that the majority of paedophilic priests attack boys and its well documented that there is a problem with homosexual priests and bishops, as well as moonsignors and God forbid maybe even cardinals who engage in homosexual behaviour and the use of male prostitutes and running sex rings. Again, all this has been documented by both catholic and non catholic media, the police etc... To claim that all this is the media being 'naughty' is, I'm afraid, totally false. Pope Francis made some very unfortunate remarks, though his gay remarks pale in insignificance compared to his remarks about women....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17949223086467366799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-61961977479138626802013-07-30T21:34:08.651+01:002013-07-30T21:34:08.651+01:00The church is anti-homosexual acts - not anti homo...The church is anti-homosexual acts - not anti homosexual persons.<br /><br />You might as well complain about the Church's position on adultery.<br /><br />My advice: Stop whining and embrace the mercy and love of God in Confession and the Most Holy Eucharist.<br /><br />Jesus loves us!The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-6324958618259064712013-07-30T21:32:17.180+01:002013-07-30T21:32:17.180+01:00The basics of Catholicism in this regard (with reg...The basics of Catholicism in this regard (with regard to homosexuality) is expressed as well as it can be in the Catechism.<br /><br /> 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.<br /><br />2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.<br /><br />2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. <br /><br />If you have a problem with that, then you don't accept the Catholic Faith.<br /><br />The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-57112437504578750112013-07-30T21:24:15.724+01:002013-07-30T21:24:15.724+01:00Bones: by the standards of that rag "Time&quo...Bones: by the standards of that rag "Time", I think the bits you quoted actually had some sort of objectivity. That said, I haven't got into the rest. But at least they did quote actual Catholic doctrine and (it seems) try for once to put it into perspective, difficult enough as that must have been for them, the poor dears. I think this may be a sort of "wha' the ++++" moment for them when they realise that easy templates they've been spewing out as per usual don't apply. But now watch them turn on him. Or maybe not. Given the propensity for sound bites there's probably a good bit more spin to be got. But eventually they'll get tired of their new toy and the Agenda will reassert itself. jaykayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09067428827648309867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-66707552007510127312013-07-30T21:07:27.689+01:002013-07-30T21:07:27.689+01:00Being anti-gay is not a bascic of Catholicism and ...Being anti-gay is not a bascic of Catholicism and being intolerant is not a Christian virtue.John Newmannoreply@blogger.com