tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post5736103310782157570..comments2024-01-08T10:10:48.074+00:00Comments on That The Bones You Have Crushed May Thrill: "The Peasants Are Revolting"The Boneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-71444332878355988662011-08-11T19:43:20.518+01:002011-08-11T19:43:20.518+01:00Clare, I think you've defamed the Successor of...Clare, I think you've defamed the Successor of St Peter quite enough, so enough.<br /><br />The idea that someone who as Cardinal instructed that Catholics are not to be masons and that membership is gravely sinful is the kingpin of the masonic society is taking conspiracy theories to extremes.<br /><br />I like a good conspiracy but really...that takes the biscuit.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-73368597165264721612011-08-11T15:16:15.139+01:002011-08-11T15:16:15.139+01:00Not a bad article.
One minor bit of pedantry thou...Not a bad article.<br /><br />One minor bit of pedantry though - you've got the wrong man for your picture. It was Beveridge who was father of the welfare state, not Keynes.<br /><br />Beveridge was a eugenicist (like many Fabians of his generation); he thought that the unemployed should be supported by the State, but that in return they should suffer "complete and permanent loss of all citizen rights — including not only the franchise but civil freedom and fatherhood."<br /><br />I suppose that would have avoided the problem of families who are unemployed for generations, but not in a way that we would like.Richardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-62757577994400652742011-08-11T09:03:59.107+01:002011-08-11T09:03:59.107+01:00Sorry, attached this to the wrong blogpost...
Goo...Sorry, attached this to the wrong blogpost...<br /><br />Good stuff. I particularly like your point about the rich being as bad as the poor. In my experience they are just the same and maybe even worse. Drug taking, multiple relationships, arrogance you name it they are on the same level. A friend of mine has coined a new phrase for them shavs (stately home and violent).<br /><br />Lets not forget that secular holy joe Ken Livingstone as well. I think I'm right in saying he's got three families with three separate women. Quite the feral youth.<br /><br />BJCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-75742357582734731372011-08-11T08:49:55.660+01:002011-08-11T08:49:55.660+01:00The killer may have described himself as a Christi...The killer may have described himself as a Christian but he was a mason. George Bush described himself as a Christian, remember? Both the killer and most likely George W Bush are Freemasons.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmXE6MCnpnU<br /><br />It is a MORTAL SIN, according to the Church, to be an active Freemason. It is highly unlikely therefore, that the reigning Pope is nipping down the local lodge every Friday or, indeed, plays any role in the secret society.<br /><br />That is not to rule out that it is not impossible that Cardinals, Archbishops, Priests have been masons or still are. I expect that since the 1960s it has been quite rife, but I do not believe that this Pope is one.<br /><br />Pope Benedict XVI is not a Freemason. Prior to becoming Pope, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger issued a document in 1983 forbidding membership in Masonic bodies for members of the Catholic faith. Here is the text: <br /><br />CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH<br />DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS<br /><br />It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.<br /><br />This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.<br /><br />Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.<br /><br />It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L'Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).<br /><br />In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.<br /><br />Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.<br /><br /><br />Joseph Card. RATZINGER<br />Prefect<br /><br />Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_pope_benedict_xvi_freemason#ixzz1UhjLloRtThe Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-74843955125419300882011-08-10T23:04:30.948+01:002011-08-10T23:04:30.948+01:00And I know you've seen all this before, but th...And I know you've seen all this before, but there is plenty of evidence the pope is a mason (every single anti-mason web log lists him as the head of the masonic order). See in particular the videos at:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_WMgj81vVM<br /><br />http://vodpod.com/watch/3168956-proof-pope-benedict-is-a-freemason-facilitating-masonic-ecumenicalism-for-the-third-temple<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqF3az8aR6s<br /><br />http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n2099.cfm<br /><br />http://www.chantcd.com/doct/destroy_church.htm<br /><br />It's well documented and anyone with an internet connection can see that there is abundant evidence (of course suppressed by the Vatican) that the current pope is indeed head of the masons. That's why rank and file altar polishers like you are told not to attend the lodge - you're not supposed to know the Truth! That's why they didn't want you to read the bible or even translate it (before the Lutherans made it so widespread they had to back down and pretend it had always been official policy). Face facts, the Norwegian killer was a Christian and the Pope is head of the Masons, there is evidence for both casesClarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-53921830339827947832011-08-10T22:52:31.681+01:002011-08-10T22:52:31.681+01:00Britain hasn't been a Catholic nation for a wh...Britain hasn't been a Catholic nation for a while so why now? Same argument works in reverse. An event sparked the powder keg of underlying social tension related to poverty. A moral person can still be legitimately angry at their poverty you know.<br /><br />Norwegian guy... He might have been a mason, I didn't read him mention it in his suicide/muder note/on his blog. He was definitely a Christian though - he mentioned that quite explicitly. Morality and belief in God didn't stop him doing something horrible did it? (nor did it stop those priests who molested....oh why bother, you aren't basing your views on reasoned debate anyway)Clarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-59361727900882762152011-08-10T22:16:09.041+01:002011-08-10T22:16:09.041+01:00The Pope is not a mason.
The idea that morality h...The Pope is not a mason.<br /><br />The idea that morality has no role to play in these riots is silly. They've been poor a long time so why now? <br /><br />The Norwegian killer was a Freemason.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-87514673894753441912011-08-10T18:57:52.920+01:002011-08-10T18:57:52.920+01:00I'm not being judgemental of him at all! I'...I'm not being judgemental of him at all! I'm saying he would have every right to riot and that he was probably comforted by the fact that you can only push people so far before they snap. My point wasn;t to criticise the fact that he liked it, my point was to criticise the fact that instead of seeing the humanity in what's going on you turn into a tedious RE teacher and start banging on about respect for family etc (rather like Boris Johnson)<br /><br />You ask what I think the reason is for the riots. Well, you have already stated what I think the reason is yourself. You say: <br /><br />"The middle classes aren't rioting because the middle classes don't need to. They have money and wealth and the nicer things in life and they are comforted.<br /><br />They also have a political voice and they are able to express themselves. The poor working class don't have a political voice and nobody gives a crap what they think."<br /><br />Right on brother. That's why we have riots. Hence my initial point, it's got the square root of sod all to do with religion, family, morals, or any other cheap answer that doesn't explain why only poor and deprived urban communities are rioting at the moment. <br /><br />p.s., the Norwegian killer WAS a Christian. He said so several times in his blog (and in his suicide/murder note). <br /><br />p.p.s., the current pope is a mason (as was the last pope)Clarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-48763405421906513262011-08-10T17:38:55.038+01:002011-08-10T17:38:55.038+01:00BTW the Norwegian killer was a Freemason.BTW the Norwegian killer was a Freemason.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-65751096912319951842011-08-10T17:37:34.302+01:002011-08-10T17:37:34.302+01:00And by the way, I don't do riots, neither does...And by the way, I don't do riots, neither does George. What George is saying is that the 'underclass' and there is an underclass have no hope, no future, no hope in the future, no job prospects, they get treated like dirt by Government and are now treating the Government like dirt. <br /><br />If any man ever had any reason to riot it is George, but I don't think George would even if it kicked off here in Brighton. He's too busy trying to take care of Diane.<br /><br />You're very judgmental of him aren't you? <br /><br />The middle classes aren't rioting because the middle classes don't need to. They have money and wealth and the nicer things in life and they are comforted. <br /><br />They also have a political voice and they are able to express themselves. The poor working class don't have a political voice and nobody gives a crap what they think. <br /><br />Just as a matter of interest, what do YOU think, is the main reason for the riots?The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-28942911304824092322011-08-10T17:31:27.164+01:002011-08-10T17:31:27.164+01:00Er...
Where were you when the student riots hit P...Er...<br /><br />Where were you when the student riots hit Parliament?<br /><br />It seems you have a lot to say. Why not start your own blog?The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-79350840633071929592011-08-10T17:21:48.845+01:002011-08-10T17:21:48.845+01:00Right, so the initial point didn't hold water,...Right, so the initial point didn't hold water, so now let's just move the goal posts. So your point is that even if a church attending Catholic like yourself goes on a rioting spree then that still wouldn't discredit the theory that it's all to do with the decline of religion because the Church in the UK is also morally bankrupt (rolls eyes), right. So any explanation what so ever will work just as well then. It's the decline of smoking. I know lots of them were smokers, but they're not smoking the old timey stuff. No wait, it's the decline of 60s style flower power.<br /><br />This reminds me of what Pat Buchanan said about that Norwegian nut job. 'The media shouldn't say he was a Christian because, even though he was a Christian, a real Christian wouldn't murder, so he can;t be a Christian'. Impeccable removal of cause and effect from any explanation there. If the theory is shown to be unfounded, just sever the link between cause and effect by saying 'yeah but they're not real Christians'.<br /><br />Look, my point is that if this is due to the decline of religion, then you have to explain why in particular it isn;t affecting those who are the most secular, not those who are (in terms of british society) more or less religious (even if they don;t pray the rosary every day). Secondly, if your only solution is to say 'if they did develop a sincere Catholic attitude of not resisting those who oppress them and of praying the rosary there would be no violence', then why factor in religion at all. You could just as easily say 'if they were convinced not to be violent', since the same standards of proof would hold. Anyway, the biggest point is you are behaving like a boring CofE school outreach officer by trying to give angry young people some Robinson's fruit cordial, a chorus of kum ba yah, and a lecture on the decline of marriage and love for Christ. It obviously didn't convince them at school (where, incidentally, my children still are forced to pray each day by law, hardly the hall mark of a secular society) why would it convince them now?Clarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-65323173862779507692011-08-10T17:09:39.012+01:002011-08-10T17:09:39.012+01:00I don't think many Toxteth kids go to Mass, do...I don't think many Toxteth kids go to Mass, do you, or say the Rosary? <br /><br />Even the Catholic Church in England and Wales could be described as a Church that has largely abandoned Christianity.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-62724619194708346462011-08-10T16:59:42.151+01:002011-08-10T16:59:42.151+01:00And I bet George was happy at the riots wasn't...And I bet George was happy at the riots wasn't he? I bet his 'the peasants are revolting' line was said with a touch of joy. Why dampen the enthusiasm of the dispossessed then? Why react to it with a moral sermon? Surely the poor are intelligent enough not to need sermons from the better off. Let the poor have a riot (and a fag, and a beer), they don't get much else to enjoyClarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-36089135902509011202011-08-10T16:56:47.804+01:002011-08-10T16:56:47.804+01:00Right, so it will happen in the poor areas then. M...Right, so it will happen in the poor areas then. Middle class students at Sussex uni (probably none of whom believe in God) will be well out of it. There is no big decline of society present here, just some frustrated kids. If they had a church to go to they might still riot, if they had jobs to go to they almost certainly wouldn'tClarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-29220805797022655182011-08-10T16:52:04.729+01:002011-08-10T16:52:04.729+01:00It might happen.
Moulsecomb and Whitehawk are jus...It might happen.<br /><br />Moulsecomb and Whitehawk are just down the road. They are the deprived estates and I expect that they see themselves in the many rioting elsewhere.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-12389487577414660992011-08-10T16:49:42.862+01:002011-08-10T16:49:42.862+01:00And like I said, the riots are only largely confin...And like I said, the riots are only largely confined to areas with high black populations in London because those are the poor areas (rather than the secular areas)Clarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-84820790436697276412011-08-10T16:47:58.065+01:002011-08-10T16:47:58.065+01:00No, but Toxteth is a Catholic area, so it's no...No, but Toxteth is a Catholic area, so it's not atheists doing the rioting either (rubbishing your decline of magic hypothesis). It is a poor area though (hence the only consistent explanation is that riots are related to urban poverty). Are you getting many riots down there in affluent middle-class yet secular Brighton? Thought notClarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-59956618469100293762011-08-10T14:47:19.833+01:002011-08-10T14:47:19.833+01:00I'm not sure about this bones.
"the lar...I'm not sure about this bones. <br /><br />"the largest factor in all of this is the country's abandonment of Christianity." There is really no evidence for this. To be honest, I would hazard a guess that the atheist league are well out of these riots, particularly as most of them are white middle class. These riots are in (forgive the prejudice) predominantly black areas, and my experience of the poorer parts of London (yup, former social worker) is that young black men and women will at least pay lip service to Christianity. For instance, one British black Christian organisation claims that 'between 50 - 68%of Britain's black population regularly attend church' [http://www.blackchristiandirectory.com/]. I presume a large proportion of the remainder are Muslims. While it certainly can't be said that these events are solely confined to the black community (and the fact that tehy are is to be located in poverty, not race), there is zero evidence that secularists, as a whole, are represented here. <br /><br />Related to this then, we have the point about the Welfare state. Surely the same criticism can now be levelled against Christianity. If the welfare state is not showing people the love they need (which isn't its job), then why not also blame the church? If young people are crying out for love and spiritual redemption to the point that they riot, surely this is a huge condemnation of the church's lack of vision, not of the state. Also, you directly contradict yourself. You are unhappy the state has taken over tasks that it didn't previously concern itself with (in the good old days of Dickensian factories), but you also accuse it of not plyign people with the Catholic ideology you are drawn to. Since when was the job of the state indoctrinating people into your favourite ideas? Also, I am at a loss to understand how any previous riots that broke out in more religious times can be explained. How about the St Scholastica Day riot of 1355? Or any other riot where young people rebelled in times of good solid moral education.<br /><br />Loss of moral authority. Well, again, why aren't middle class or aristorcatic kids with no moral authority rioting? They are morally dissolute too. they're not rioting because they aren't crapped on by the police and the state. You yourself point out that the absence of fatherhood is not something that only hits the poor, so it's pretty tricky to explain why the riots are only amongst the poor. If it was some deep-rooted theological and moral problem I would expect to see Kensington High Street full of the vastly more secular middle-class kids smashing things up. They don't because they are listened to and have a future to look forward to. We need to give kids a future, not another bloody tedious lecture about family. <br /><br />It's not to say there aren't moral problems with society, but jumping on any and every band wagon discredits the thesis. You're a bit like an old Marxist who trots out the 'revolution is coming' each and every time some youth demo kicks off. Or the BNP member who wistfully ignores racial harmony and points out that a race war is coming at moments like these.Clarenoreply@blogger.com