tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post1131927164296508259..comments2024-01-08T10:10:48.074+00:00Comments on That The Bones You Have Crushed May Thrill: The Papal Visit Site ProblemsThe Boneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-11350449812580869972010-08-20T00:41:47.314+01:002010-08-20T00:41:47.314+01:00"...And said: Amen I say to you, unless you b..."...And said: Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven..."<br /><br />For some, the words of Jesus are just not enough.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-89844718079903909952010-08-19T20:42:46.799+01:002010-08-19T20:42:46.799+01:00Well we have cleared your (probably deliberate) ms...Well we have cleared your (probably deliberate) msunderstanding of what I wrote but we still haven't cleared up your confused understanding of catholic teachings which remains at primary school level.<br /><br />That's the problem with converts, they should come with a health warning!Catholic teachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-17437006186738681912010-08-18T22:43:24.936+01:002010-08-18T22:43:24.936+01:00Well, I am glad that misunderstanding has now been...Well, I am glad that misunderstanding has now been cleared up.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-81740876114733566582010-08-18T22:42:20.276+01:002010-08-18T22:42:20.276+01:00I wasn't denying that there was an ontological...I wasn't denying that there was an ontological change, just your intrpretation that it was 'dramatic' which doesn't appear anywhere in the official documents.<br />You seem to over-emphasise the significance like priest become almost super humansCatholic Teachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-37493589201914818432010-08-17T21:41:04.859+01:002010-08-17T21:41:04.859+01:00I'm not a Priest so just Laurence is fine!I'm not a Priest so just Laurence is fine!The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-36303228169174702972010-08-17T21:28:29.930+01:002010-08-17T21:28:29.930+01:00Father, the lead-in to the section from which thes...Father, the lead-in to the section from which these quotes are taken says "...Want some basic information on the Pope and the Catholic Church?" As it is 'basic information' the website is obviously geared to non-Catholics and in this respect it does a decent job in stating a few teachings without going into great explanation. Everything in the section mentioned is also in accord with Church teaching, albeit expressed in a simple manner.<br /><br />As for the issue about the Pope being a head of state, perhaps the website is trying to answer the objection of many who wonder why the UK taxpayer is helping to fund the visit.<br /><br />Rather than be depressed, I am happy that someone is taking the time to reach out to others. Hopefully the website will sow a seed of interest in Christ and possibly even Catholicism. It's certainly more than some clergy are doing.support the papal visit organisersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-15936349485915320112010-08-17T13:30:45.985+01:002010-08-17T13:30:45.985+01:00Lawrence.
Absolutely right!Lawrence.<br />Absolutely right!sandy.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-33088716682259309302010-08-17T11:19:05.142+01:002010-08-17T11:19:05.142+01:00At Baptism there is a 'dramatic' change - ...At Baptism there is a 'dramatic' change - since the stain of Original Sin has been removed and a soul has been brought into the Life of the Holy Trinity.<br /><br />At Confession there is a 'dramatic' change, since the stain or mortal or venial sin from the soul is removed and a soul has been reconciled to God, the eternal punishment due for sin removed. As far as the East is from the West - that is how far God has taken away our sin.<br /><br />In Holy Communion there is a 'dramatic' change in the soul, since the soul has received the Precious Body and Blood of Christ, whole and entire, Body, Blood, Soul, Humanity and Divinity.<br /><br />The effects of these Sacraments may not be visible or appear dramatic - their EFFECTS may appear subtle or not be visible at all, but they have altered the very life of the Soul.<br /><br />So it is with ordination that a Priest has been marked indelibly to be Christ's own, to be His in this life and if he perseveres in the life to come. <br /><br />"The priesthood is the love of the heart of Jesus."<br /><br />"O, how great is the priest! ... If he realized what he is, he would die."<br /><br />"Without the priest, the passion and death of our Lord would be of no avail. It is the priest who continues the work of redemption here on earth...What use would be a house filled with gold, were there no one to open its door? <br /><br />The priest holds the key to the treasures of heaven: it is he who opens the door: he is the steward of the good Lord; the administrator of His goods...Leave a parish for twenty years without a priest and they will end by worshiping the beasts there..The priest is not a priest for himself, he is a priest for you."<br /><br />~ St. John VianneyThe Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-78342519892351221032010-08-17T11:08:37.821+01:002010-08-17T11:08:37.821+01:00Priesthood is not 'symbolic'. Priests are ...Priesthood is not 'symbolic'. Priests are called to be 'living Signs', yes, but their role is not symbolic or functionary. Priests are not Christ, but they are joined to Him in a special way and stand 'in the person of Christ' sacramentally.<br /><br />I very much expect that the way you view the Priesthood is the way that you view the Eucharist. 'Symbolic'.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-1860758050915854812010-08-17T11:04:02.786+01:002010-08-17T11:04:02.786+01:00'Above all, in the Constitution on the Church,...'Above all, in the Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium number 28, in the Decree on the ministry and life of priests, Presbyterorum ordinis, and also partly in the Decree on the "munus pastorale" of the bishops, Christus dominus, which treats of the collaborators of the Bishop, it recognizes that also the priests in their grade of ministry are invested with one "Sacred Power" and already participate in the configuration to Christ which they receive at ordination. They are participants together with the Bishops, in the same priesthood and in the same mission of Christ, something which the early church held in highest resteem c.f. Constitution Ecclesiasticum Apostolorum, XVIII: Presbyteri sunt symmystai et synepimachoi Episcoporum (Th. Schermann, Die allgemeine Kirchenordnung I Padervorn 19145, p.26; A Harnack T.u.U., II,4, p.13, n. 18 et 19) Pseudo-Hieronymus, De Septem Ordinibus Ecclesiae: in benedictione cum episcopis consortes mysteriorum sunt" (A.W. Kalff, Wurzburg 1937, p. 45) S. Isidorum Hispalensis, De Ecclesiasiticis Officiis, C. VII: "Praesunt enim Ecclesiae Christi, et in confectione divini corporis et sanguinis consortes cum episcopis sunt, similiter et in doctrina populorum, et in officio praedicandi " (PL 83, 787).<br /><br />The priests are ordained as co-operators of a Bishop: They do not participate in the supreme power of the Episcopal college for the Church universal ; and they can not speak of a universal "college" of priests in the same sense, but for them, ordination also inserts them into a Sacramental Order, which is universal and confers a new ontological participation to the "munera" of Christ, which makes them capable of implementing these duties in his name and in the name of the Church, in any place, after having first received a concrete mandate from a Bishop.'<br /><br />Key words here are 'indelible' and 'ontological'. Your comment is indicative of all that is wrong within the Church. A change in the spiritual nature of a person can be 'dramatic' without being visible or noticable. <br /><br />A priest can decide to refuse all graces. A priest can decide not to take up the spiritual armoury which he is encouraged to take up by the Church. A priest can neglect prayer or even friendship with Christ. Ultimately, however the Priest is a changed soul. He is marked indelibly and will be judged according to that new dignity which he has been given.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-34038160970656223632010-08-17T08:40:58.835+01:002010-08-17T08:40:58.835+01:00Well, that told you Bones. What quaint little idea...Well, that told you Bones. What quaint little ideas you harbour, soooo not 21st century. Sweet, really.georgemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-43630767484320644672010-08-17T02:06:01.982+01:002010-08-17T02:06:01.982+01:00Bloody ridiculous our bishopsBloody ridiculous our bishopsHestornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-32011118125444915372010-08-17T00:36:35.829+01:002010-08-17T00:36:35.829+01:00What bit of the above exactly is heresy Lozza?What bit of the above exactly is heresy Lozza?Catholic teachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-50886510732106367802010-08-17T00:34:59.782+01:002010-08-17T00:34:59.782+01:00everythings so black and white for you lawrence, m...everythings so black and white for you lawrence, must make life so simple not having to think for yourselfhere we go againnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-26994106294814203892010-08-16T18:06:41.906+01:002010-08-16T18:06:41.906+01:00...'the nuance of a richer Catholic understand......'the nuance of a richer Catholic understanding'<br /><br />I've never heard heresy described in such glowing terms.The Boneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10271719805983763595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2389530333077823143.post-66638310450635194612010-08-16T17:41:52.273+01:002010-08-16T17:41:52.273+01:00Erm, in the early church 'lay' people did ...Erm, in the early church 'lay' people did lead the Eucharist and 'confect' the sacrament (as you may simplistically describe it).<br />Also confession did not become a custom or sacrament of the church until the middle ages.<br />...so actually maybe the role of the priesthood is largely functionary as the ministry developed when only when the apostles (bishops) could no longer minister to their large flocks.<br /><br />Yes there is a change in the person at ordination, but it is a subtle change not a dramatic one. Indeed the change is so subtle that it cannot be noticed. It is a change in orientation of serving the community before oneself which may take a lifetime to internalize and manifest itself externally.<br /> <br />Yes priests are alter christus particuarly symbolically when leadIng the Eucharist but we are all also alter christus for that is the point of becomng a Christian ie to become more like Christ. But preists are NOT Christ, to over emphasise this aspect of their nature is clericalism - If priests were truly alter christus then they would not have sexually abused children. Priests remain fundamentally human even if they strive to be alter christus.<br /><br />Your theology lawrence is a little simplistic at times and lacks the nuance of a richer catholic understanding.Catholic teachernoreply@blogger.com